We talked before about what to do when someone steals your church trailer. Gary Lamb would beg to differ, however. His church trailer was stolen (perhaps we have a serial church trailer thief on our hands?), and his reaction was a little bit different. From his blog:
First let me say, God loves you. Second let me say we forgive you. We really don’t want to forgive you, but God says we should so we do.
And it continues …
I am curious what kind of lowlife you must be? Trust me, I have been around some pretty low ones before but never one that would be so low as to steal from a church. I understand you probably need some crack or something like that but stealing from a church would scare me. It would scare me more once I realized which church I stole it from. We are probably the only church you have ever heard of that will honestly break your legs once you are found.
So what do you think, are you a church trailer forgiver or a church trailer leg breaker?
Matt Huber
July 8, 2008
This gives me a bad gut feeling. Real bad…the Bible consistently reminds us that God is the judge, the disciplinarian, not us. That’s not our role. If I can be so bold…this honestly embarrasses me.
I don’t know, but the response that Kinetic gave sat very well with my heart – it made me think “yeah, this is how Christ would respond”.
granata
July 8, 2008
part of me thinks this is hilarious. Another part of me, maybe the less carnal, thinks this is a bad move.
Joshua
July 8, 2008
I saw this when it first came out, as I subscribe to Gary’s blog feed. Honestly, I find it perplexing. Definitely not the approach I would have taken; insulting and namecalling. Being mad and angry, understandable. But expecting anyone to honestly get the concept of forgiveness out of that is reaching. I guess I’m more of a trailer forgiver, than leg breaker.
Scott
July 8, 2008
Gary’s “Bad Boy” act is pretty pathetic. I’ll take Kinetic’s approach over Revolution’s anyday. Christlikeness or redneckery – sometimes you have to choose.
Matt
July 8, 2008
I had to laugh… at my stupidity. I read trailer and thought of movie trailer right away… I was worried about all those people that steal other church movie trailer’s and ideas… creative theft is WRONG, and I guess so is church trailer stealing, especially from Gary :|
Cameron
July 8, 2008
I wonder who this post was for? I really doubt the thief subscribes to his blog. This is little more than an exercise in chest puffing in front of other Christians!
GregQualls
July 8, 2008
I have to say I’m with Gary on this one. I’m kind of tired of the tree hugging, lamb petting, bath robe wearing image of Jesus. I don’t know if I would go to the extent that he did…but I definitely wouldn’t take Kenetic’s way.
Jim Mayes
July 8, 2008
Forgiveness is the only answer, each and every time regardless of the offense. Not easy to do all the time, but that is how we are expected to respond. Anything else demonstrates our unbelief. Kenetic’s response is that of Jesus, while Gary’s is how an angry world would respond.
Kyle
July 8, 2008
I’m subscribed to Gary’s blog, too, and when that post came out I just felt like he handled it completely wrong – completely opposite of Christ’s attitude. How does he think he’s justified by saying this? Is he a follower of Christ or a wannabe Driscol?
Jeremy
July 8, 2008
I used to follow Lamb and dug his tough, confrontational style. This, however, is juvenile at best, contrabiblical at worst.
Expressing anger and frustration, fine. Threatening physical violence? Seriously? Seriously?
Kim
July 8, 2008
OMG is all I can say! Surely he is not for real!!!! Please tell me this is not for real……his blog goes on to almost incite his congregation to violence. I am saddened. These type of things give us all a bad name.
Come on…get over it..get on with what God wants to do. Count to 10 before you write something stupid that you will regret someday soon.
Carl
July 9, 2008
Just for clarity’s sake, if Kinetic was really doing the biblical thing, he would have asked the guy to come buy so he could give the thief the key to the trailer. Not pitched membership to his church.
And I hope Gary has a chance to confront the thief. It would be great for him to put up or shut up. There are lots of tough guys on the internet.
Art
July 9, 2008
Go Gary! Go Gary! Give it to ’em “Revolution Style!” Yeah! Come on!
Chris S.
July 9, 2008
I agree with most of the people above me here. There are times when pushing things to the edge is good and there are times when the whole load goes flying over the edge of the cliff. I think Gary just did the latter.
Whether it is a joke or not one doesn’t know how an individual in the public will read it.
Ted
July 9, 2008
So, I guess if somebody kills one of their congregation, or one of their ministers, this Gary fellow would go all vigilante on ’em?
This guy is not one I’d want for a pastor.
Laure
July 9, 2008
While I understand that Gary wants to seem like a “different” kind of Christian, I struggle with his ridiculous “I’ll kick the crap out of you if I find you” blog post. Seriously? If you find the guy, you’re going to break his legs? What is this, the Sopranos? I’m not saying that the church shouldn’t be upset, but when Jesus turned over the money-changers’ tables, I don’t recall any threats of violence. Do you?
Really, what are you accomplishing? Your insurance is paying up, and you’re left with 45 days of doing church without all the flash and bling.
Overreact much?
Shawn
July 9, 2008
Forgive the thieves, but be sure to cooperate fully with the police.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
And I have to laugh at Kim’s comment, so true. And then to turn the whole incident into a huge viral marketing campaign…
But hey, if it works for them…
Shawn
July 9, 2008
Oh wait, I knew I had a point.
This Gary’s blog is just bad marketing. He’s poisoning the brand! That’s *our* brand, and he’s poisoning it.
Seriously though, he could serve as an example to his congregation, and yet he actively encourages the exact opposite of the values he claims to (I presume) to hold dear. Where’s the love?
Hal
July 9, 2008
Does anyone understand hyperbole? I love this guy
Hal
July 9, 2008
Does anyone understand hyperbole? I love this guy
Shane
July 9, 2008
You guys need to lighten up. I too subscribe to Gary’s feed as also a bunch of others. Gary is just what he is , ole fashioned redneck. It’s time preachers and pastors start being what they are and quit hiding behind a stupid pulpit. If it’s sin, call it sin. If someone steals from you, call them out, don’t roll over. I guess Christ sinned when he turned the money changers tables over when they were in the temple… sheesh!
Jesse Phillips
July 9, 2008
Wow! I’m sad that people think what Gary says is okay.
The bible clearly tells us to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, if someone takes your tunic, give them your cloak also – this is a far cry from threatening the people who stole your trailer.
What are they teaching at that church anyway? Obviously not the bible… okay that’s too harsh, but does that make my point?
Stephen
July 9, 2008
CALM DOWN. I love it. I’m not redneck. Gary is being HONEST. That is exactly how you would feel too. We’ve had 2 trailers stolen at our church before. He CLEARLY mentions that they forgive them. He CLEARLY says that God loves them. Then he expresses his HUMAN feelings that are accurate and detailed. I love it. One of these days we’ll slow our role on the “blue-eyed, blond-haired, English-accent” Jesus. Remember when he made a whip and cleared the temple? I’m not saying Gary is claiming to be Jesus or is Jesus. But seriously, I love to see another pastor being transparent and vulnerable, showing feelings, and be honest. THANKS Gary!
Nathan Timmons
July 9, 2008
The Sopranos comment was great – my thoughts exactly. In no way am I questioning his faith, but I’m just not sure how Gary’s rant shows a distinctly Christian attitude towards the theft. How does a veiled threat illustrate forgiveness? Hopefully just a heat-of-the-moment thought that unfortunately made its way online.
I completely agree that people (including pastors) should feel free to be who they are, but that doesn’t mean we should be content with indulging or unleashing our less-than-saintly aspects. Push-over Christianity is not the answer, but neither is the other extreme.
Todd
July 9, 2008
“He CLEARLY mentions that they forgive them. He CLEARLY says that God loves them.”
So can I tell poor people that God loves them and not do anything for them? Or can I tell my spouse that I love her and forgive her whenever she burns my chicken-on-a-stick, and then, in the same breath threaten her with violence?
Clearly saying that God forgives them doesn’t absolve what he says after that. CLEARLY he hasn’t forgiven them.
Nick Zadrozny
July 9, 2008
I for one am not going to praise Gary for being honest and vulnerable and raw. He seems to think that the threat of physical violence and a dose of good old-fashioned shame is what will bring this thief to righteousness. If you ask me, his reaction is pure and utter foolishness at best.
Putting the thief aside for a moment, I have to wonder: what kind of message is Gary communicating to his church? To the world? What is Gary’s own experience of God? Does he believe in a God who threatens us with shame and violence, or one who offers unconditional love and forgiveness?
This whole situation reminds me of another story…
I think we know where that story goes. It might make for a good and timely study over at Revolution.
JenS
July 9, 2008
Church marketing doesn’t always suck – Gary Lamb is the best marketing EVER for NOT attending church – or even thinking about it…
Danny Eiler
July 9, 2008
I too subscribed to his blog and was simply shocked when I read this. I’m a big admirer of Gary Lamb, and I’ve always enjoyed what he had to write. But I was just in disbelief that he would act this way to people so badly in need of God’s love. I tried to comment on his blog, but comments were closed.
To say the least I found these comments to be immature, juvenile, and words that should not come from a pastor leading a church in a “revolution”. If I were a layperson of revolution church, I would be very worried about the “fruit” of anger, rage, and bitterness that I see from my senior pastor.
He obviously has not forgiven these people, any more than pharisees were religious by the lip service that they paid to God.
Words .. and nothing more …..
I have a few more thoughts, but I’ll just shut my mouth now. Sad …..
Jimmy
July 9, 2008
Man. Some of you guys need to get a life – a REAL life. Since when does a pastor have to be a whuss? I like Gary’s style. It may be a little over the top but so what. Gary is a little over the top. And, his “over the top style” has brought in about 1000 people to his church that would be considered the “notorious” sinners in Jesus’ time. Some of you who are coming down on Gary for his post wouldn’t even have the stomach to reach some of the people Revolution is reaching. No you wouldn’t!!!! You just say you would.
The church needs less whiner nice guy pastors. Lead on Gary…!
Tadd Grandstaff
July 9, 2008
WOW! Some of you crack me up – obviously you don’t know Gary and obviously you have no clue what you are freaking talking about. If you can’t read the sheer humor in this post – then you have no sense & maybe Gary should write another post geared towards you!!
That post was meant for nothing more than a laugh – some of you need to seriously lighten up!!
I was talking to Gary while he was typing the post – we were cracking up the entire time!!
Anyways, not even sure why I wasted my time responding to any of you – some of you are too serious to actually ever enjoy life!
LIGHTEN UP!!
Scott
July 9, 2008
It is not weakness to forgive. The strongest man who ever lived repeatedly asked for God to forgive those people who were killing Him.
And the “it’s just a joke” angle is pretty thin. Why turn the comments off if it was “sheer humor”?
Nah, the guy did it, then stepped in it. And now his minions want us to think we are the problem.
Todd
July 10, 2008
That’s the point: We don’t know Gary. So in his first public exposure to many of us, we encounter a post that isn’t funny, isn’t clever and comes across as petty and hateful.
Maybe we should lighten up. Maybe we should get senses. But maybe Gary and those defending him should learn to recognize that communication is a one-way street and that if one fails to communicate what one wanted to communicate, the failing isn’t entirely the listeners’.
Todd
July 10, 2008
That’s the point: We don’t know Gary. So in his first public exposure to many of us, we encounter a post that isn’t funny, isn’t clever and comes across as petty and hateful.
Maybe we should lighten up. Maybe we should get senses. But maybe Gary and those defending him should learn to recognize that communication is a two-way street and that if one fails to communicate what one wanted to communicate, the failing isn’t entirely the listeners’.
Danny Eiler
July 10, 2008
The joke wasn’t funny .. it didn’t even come across as a joke. Unless I was supposed to laugh at how immature he was acting.
Maybe he should re-post and clarify his attempt at humor.. because I read the post after that one, and he still made his threats of physical violence very clear. Didn’t laugh at that one either, was I supposed to?
Adam G.
July 10, 2008
Wow. To paraphrase and summarize: God loves you, we forgive you but you are a lowlife scumbag and we’d like to beat you down.
No. That is not an acceptable way to respond.
Priscilla
July 11, 2008
1st, may I say that Church Blogging Sucks when the in the title blog the ‘r’ is left out of church and 35 people respond and none noticed it.
2nd, in response to Jimmy, I think we have all had times when something we wrote in an email or blog was not taken the way we intended it, but that is why we as church (or chuch, if that applies to you) communicators have to be so careful in our written communication. I think it is a good example of why church marketing sucks when the title is spelled wrong and the content is so misunderstood.
Joshua Cody
July 11, 2008
Ouch, thanks Priscilla! Corrected.
Joshua
July 13, 2008
Did anyone catch the follow-up he posted about how he isn’t mad? “I do stand by the fact that I would love to punch these people in mouth but I am not mad.”
Heath Veuleman
July 13, 2008
I’m stunned. I mean I’m aghast.
How is this in any way an appropriate response? More than that, how can anyone defend this as an appropriate response. It is clearly antithetical to the mission of not only his seeker-sensitive, emergent-esque church – it is diametrically opposed to scripture.
While I am certain culture and theology play a roll in his misguidance (and those defending him) there is no amount of redneckery or hypercalvinism that can excuse this as simple ignorance.
This concerns me that this illustrates the American church all too well, especially with those defending his words.
In short this breaks my heart and infuriates me at the same time. This is exactly why I do not attend church and am thinking about self-identifying as a christian. I simply cannot be a part of this.
Russ
July 15, 2008
OK look, you guys that are spewing all this nonsense about how Gary’s attitude would turn off an unchurched person is a little out there.
If I try and look at this from a visitor/non-christian standpoint, I say “wow, this guy is getting a little pissed – just like I would. Maybe christians arent all a bunch of hypocritical wusses…”
disclaimer: I have never been to his church, and this is the first time I have ever heard of him.
Larry
July 18, 2008
Check out Gary’s comment two blog posts later:
“Mapped out my week so I would receive the last disk of Season 2 Sopranos on Saturday from NetFlix but forgot they are closed today so that won’t be happening. Not cool.”
I guess if you spend a lot of time with the Sopranos, you start thinking like them…
As for Jesus using a whip to clear the temple, note that (1) there’s no record he used it to hit people, and (2) he was cleansing the temple of religious people taking advantage of poor travelers. If a church leader stole the trailer, then the comparison MIGHT be made. Otherwise, that story is irrelevant to the situation.
Trey
July 20, 2008
Might i just say that I think we, as the church, should retire the whole “Jesus and the moneychangers” example to support Christians doing overtly malevolent acts or being pissed or threatening violence. The very fact that that is the ONLY example people EVER use for Christ supporting war/violence/christian-themed wrestling/etc. proves the fact that this was an exception, not a norm. Christ’s call for purity and holiness was at the epicenter of His decision to clear the temple (or so i gather from the story.)
I believe whole-heartedly that pastors need to be transparent and open and human, but there is a huge difference between expressing frustration and calling someone a crack addict and threatening to punch him in the mouth. Maybe it is a joke or just his sense of humor. If it is, I think pastor Gary left us out of the punchline.
Dave Carrol
July 21, 2008
Our church was tagging last weekend (vandalized) so on Sunday, we went out on the street and tagged back that Jesus loved him.
It was a great way to turn around a bad situation into something really positive
http://bigearcreations.blogspot.com/2008/07/tagging-church.html
Joe S
July 21, 2008
Everyone is always so quick to reference Jesus’ “angry” moment with the Money Changers in the temple. There are 2 important things to consider in that story: 1) Jesus ONLY did it once. and 2) ONLY Jesus is depicted in righteous anger in the New testament. It was HIS house, as He and the Father are one.
Gary is wayout of line on this one. I’m not going to beat around the bush. I hope he retracts this statement and looks inward and upward for some much needed counseling.